there is a market, you put items on market and the price is automatically controlled troughout the world based on quantity
sure if you got steps like 10-20-30-40 and max 100 adobe for 10-20-30 ,,, - 100 pies that helps
this also prevents money sending to one place in the world, so the price of stone can vary but not too much
also this shops need teleport
now hard to imagine everything sold, like pies got plates attached and i would sell te excess pies but need the plates back
but it could be a new sort of category, like luxury resources which are only in parts of the world, regeneratign, like silver or mahagony wood or similar, and then you can only buy it
maybe unique or limited items
but al lthis requires instant transport aka teleporting
maybe a short cooldown and a technology requirement to pass it on
some sort of ai stagecoach which takes items from shop to shop
if you limit shops inside interior of fences then you can somewhat control ownership to access
jason knows rust so you can call a blueprint
either have low level blueprints easy to obtain or only higher level things require a blueprint
in rust you can find this things or loot from others, or buy for scrap or find an item and make a blueprint out of it possibly losing the item
like you can find ancient ruins which might have a cart blueprint, by taking apart a cart, your family can build carts
so like adobe tech should be no blueprint so you can gather sticks and stones and make a viable village
then maybe a replacement for all those things with steel, maybe with extra qualities like you can move a metal kiln slowly and the fire lasts 10 sec longer but requires a lot of new items
doesn't have to be much different, like just recolor a bit and holds more items
in rust you can convert items to scrap and use scap to get blueprints or weapons
so kinda geets it's own value which is mostly fixed over time, and the higher tech needs more scrap so cant say it loses value or inflates quick
Maybe a slower food drain but less ressources could work along with nerfing berries and buffing higher tier foods
Like a berry bush would only feed you for 2-3 minutes but a pie made by the baker would be enough for 5 minutes but at the same time one wheat would only make two pies. Something along these lines
Food should be something that has value trading and not something that there is just an overanbundance off
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We live in tribes because it's possible and the easiest solution.
But it's made possible only because there is an overabundance of ressources and mainly food, so you dont need to care that much about running out of food.
When was the last time you experienced a food shortage in a village?
You can be as inneficient as you want there will still be enough, that's one of the main reason tribal villages are still the meta.
This and not having small families due to how fertility currently works.
But if only the farmer can cultivate advanced crops, only the cook can make elaborate foods etc, if higher tier foods get a buff and if it wasn't possible to feed a whole village with berries.
Then there would need to be personnal property because the innefficiency and lack of coordination of the tribal system (towns are a big mess) wouldn't make it possible to survive, since 2-3 berry munchers could make the whole village die.
]]>From a logistical standpoint, trading for goods in OHOL is just really cumbersome and unnecessary. The tribal sharing model has evolved in large part because it is so fast and easy. Anything else takes too much time and effort for too little benefit. You only have one hour to live in a town and no reason to horde supplies for the future. So why bother with trading when it is almost always faster to make a new thing or borrow an existing thing from the village? There are very few situations where you would save time by asking someone else to make something for you. I think part of the issue is related to instantaneous crafting. It's not just that everyone knows how to make everything. Everything you make is constructed instantly and perfectly, so there's no reason to seek out a craftsman or specialize in a particular trade.
This situation is created by the interaction of multiple factors. Honestly, I'm not convinced that this is something that really needs to be fixed right now. At least, not directly. I think that trade will naturally evolve once the game state has changed sufficiently to allow for trade. But trying to force the meta to change in a particular way is risky. There's no guarantee that the result will be an actual improvement over the current game state, or if it will just create a host of new problems without resolving the intended issue. I'd rather see development time spent on fixing obvious problems, like storage limitations, and adding interesting new game mechanics, like the new languages.
]]>Dodge wrote:Well vending machines, stock market etc will maybe be a thing when there is electricity and computers in the game.
A simple form of trading like 2-3 hats or a backpack for a cart is reachable in the current level of tech.
But there is no incentive to do it since everyone can make hats, a backpack or a cart
This is one of the main issue we have for trading in OHOL atm, this plus living in a tribal everything is shared setting.
That and no way to make bulk trading easy. No one is going to waste time talking about trading a single article when they could spend the same time crafting it instead .
If they couldn't craft the object at all then it would be valuable to the point that discussing the terms of that trade wouldn't be an issue.
For example you have a small family with a house but everyone is naked. As long as you are all indoors it's fine since the temperature is good.
But to stay and work outside you would need clothes, so you decide to trade some of your tools since you're a smith family with the tailor for some clothes BUT if he doesn't want tools then you would need to trade with sheppard for fleece to give to the tailor and get clothes.
In that scenario having a monnetary system would be much more practical but not necessary.
But it wouldn't be neccessarly a single monnetary unit.
Lots of ressources could be used as monnetary unit.
Iron would only have value for a smith since he's the only one that can use it but you could still use it as monnetary exchange until it reaches a smith that can use it.
]]>Well vending machines, stock market etc will maybe be a thing when there is electricity and computers in the game.
A simple form of trading like 2-3 hats or a backpack for a cart is reachable in the current level of tech.
But there is no incentive to do it since everyone can make hats, a backpack or a cart
This is one of the main issue we have for trading in OHOL atm, this plus living in a tribal everything is shared setting.
That and no way to make bulk trading easy. No one is going to waste time talking about trading a single article when they could spend the same time crafting it instead .
]]>A simple form of trading like 2-3 hats or a backpack for a cart is reachable in the current level of tech.
But there is no incentive to do it since everyone can make hats, a backpack or a cart
This is one of the main issue we have for trading in OHOL atm, this plus living in a tribal everything is shared setting.
]]>Player A builds the machine and stocks it with a couple of items, setting a sell price for each item.
Player B access the machine to view the items and the price for each. Then he decides if he can or will buy something from the vending machine.
We have cars and airplanes, so a vending machine isn't too far out there. And it eliminates some of the time-crunch problems related to trying to work out a deal with someone else while both parties are slowly dying of old age or starvation. The vendor can set-up machines in advance and then the potential buyers can stop buy to make trades whenever they have free time and the need for something specific.
You could potentially set-up entire multiple stores to sell all kinds of things, assuming you had the material to craft enough vending machines.
]]>Someone posts a selling bid, and someone else could post a selling bid for a different price and quantity, etc. Then buyers could take the bids or post their own buying bids for a price and quantity.
If no one takes, then stuff just remains unsold.
Works fine in a bartering system or any arbitrary currency.
To me, I think a currency backed in some essential resource would make more sense. Gold is non-essential and consequently not valuable in OHOL, so it’s preferable to pick something else like a banknote that represents one bowl of water or one iron ore.
]]>Some thread a while back someone suggested a fixed price that scales with the amount of goods in the market, but IMO that’s just as bad. Rarity doesn’t correlate well with value in OHOL (e.g. candles are super rare in OHOL but they’re also useless!)
]]>Why would currency need a practical value?
Irl currency works because everyone agrees to use it since it's more practical than trading bags of rice for a house for example.
Because, in human history when currencies are first born they start as portable items with practical value and a long shelf life. Later a lord or government says they will only accept certain kinds of currencies for taxes and that gives them intrinsic value. But, I'm hoping that process or something else I have not imagined can happen in the game rather than just saying "this is the currency of the game" I mean it might work because in games people will hoard anything that can be hoarded. But that's the game giving the value not the gameplay or the players?
]]>I really don't like the idea of an invisible currency or ... menus in the game. There are not menus now, you just do things in the world.
So if we want money we just need a rare item that can be carried in VERY large numbers. I posted an idea about a purse some time about and a way to mind coins from gold. The purse could carry up to 20 of any kind of ingot or gold coins (you'd get like 5 from a gold bar)
In order for this to work gold would need some practical values... such as if it were used in medical supplies. Something every town could use. (require a golden needle for stitches? gold needle and thread can't be used for clothing... maybe gold foil for pads to make them portable?)
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By the way did you see my idea about having some tech tied to the generation of the lineage? It could be essential tech, but for example:
-after gen 5 you can kill a bear with two arrows
-after gen 10 you get a little more iron from a mine
-after gen 20 you can make pies with 5 bites of food...things like that.
I'm against a menu or invisible currency too i just showed screens of the other game to give an idea of how they do it.
But this is for inspiration and not a copy pasta of the other game
Why would currency need a practical value?
Irl currency works because everyone agrees to use it since it's more practical than trading bags of rice for a house for example.
I saw the idea but the problem with gen skill is that everyone from the same gen gets the skill so in terms of trading it brings you back to everyone can do the same.
But i agree that a gen 1 shouldnt be able to make a diesel engine for example, there is no real progression in tech which makes late game too easy to reach.
But i dont think it should be specifically tied to the number of generation, we could imagine a gen 100 not able to do an engine if nobody from that gen did any engineering even if highly unlikely.
]]>So if we want money we just need a rare item that can be carried in VERY large numbers. I posted an idea about a purse some time about and a way to mind coins from gold. The purse could carry up to 20 of any kind of ingot or gold coins (you'd get like 5 from a gold bar)
In order for this to work gold would need some practical values... such as if it were used in medical supplies. Something every town could use. (require a golden needle for stitches? gold needle and thread can't be used for clothing... maybe gold foil for pads to make them portable?)
--
By the way did you see my idea about having some tech tied to the generation of the lineage? It could be essential tech, but for example:
-after gen 5 you can kill a bear with two arrows
-after gen 10 you get a little more iron from a mine
-after gen 20 you can make pies with 5 bites of food...
things like that.
]]>